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June 18, 2012



Brother, I'm not a Mars Hill guy, but I have seen this attitude in friends that go to Mars Hill. Once you question the leadership of Mars Hill, the way they do church, or, their "Demon Trials", you are quickly cast off as a friend. I'm not sure why that is but I'm glad you're bringing it to peoples attention. Please pray that God would never allow me to abuse His children, or be arrogant enough to put my needs ahead of the needs of His church. And if I am that He would for the sake of His church remove me from my office until I repent. Acts 20:28, Heb. 13:17, Eph. 4:11-16, 1 Pet. 5:1-12, 1 Timothy 3:1-5, Titus 1 etc.


Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v73/fotofether/religious/?action=view&current=anyqs.jpg


The Council of Ephesus was called to deal with the teachings of Pelagius, the Synod of Dort was called to deal with the teachings of Arminius. Why does it seem that when there is heresy in the church today, especially in large, well known, popular churchs, is there no call for a council today to look into the teachings and set the record straight? Has the true Church become too politically correct, or is the true Church too afraid to stand on the Word of God.

As a side note, my mother in law is on a first name basis with the General Overseer of the Assembly of God Church. She listened to your critique of Tommy Sparger's message on Hell and wrote a letter to the Overseer. His response was less than stellar, in my opinion. In a nutshell, he said that there were some questionable things being taught at Northpoint, but that there was no denying the number being "saved!" I personally do not agree with his assessment of the number of people being saved.

So, again, what will it take for the true Church of God to have the courage to call these questionable Pastor's to give an account of themselves, and then to follow through if they cannot?

BK in SD

Sadly, this ministry philosophy of "polarization in the name of conviction" is the new and fashionable fundamentalist legalism. I mourn for a generation of worshipers who are being taught a western image of Jesus superimposed on King James hermeneutic. Only this time, with comedic giftedness, it drinks beer, occasionally cusses, and drives mustang convertables. Sort of reminds me of Swaggart in the 80's. I'm not prophesying, just sayin'

Travis Mamone

Sheesh! Can you say "cult of personality?" And I'm not talking about the Living Colour song, either.

Still Upset

The sad part is that the two men Mark Driscoll fired were totally behind his vision a the time. They merely questioned the new by-laws. Just slightly questioning is viewed as opposing, and Mark Driscoll then views you as a threat to "his" vision. You are then thrown under the bus and viewed an necessary collateral damage. He would tell his "elders" that all movements inevitably harm innocent people.

Of course, the pile of bodies included 1000 members who chose not to renew membership in Mars Hill Church after the by-laws were changed and all memberships were cancelled.

Many of us were hurt when Mars Hill was "replanted" with a new ecclesiology and began to center around the centrality of the Lordship of Mark Driscoll (the King), and the ruthless drive to attain a total attendance of 50,000 members.

The years we tithed and gave of our time and effort to the original vision turned out to be years we were defrauded. The original vision (supposedly from God) was summarily discarded and a new Mars Hill Church was planted. Mark Driscoll was soliciting our tithes and efforts knowing that he planned to end our memberships and replant a different church. If he was not a "church" he would suffer the same fate as Jimmy Baker.

SJ Camp

Good word brother!

Pastors are called by the Lord to be His servant-leaders to the body of Christ, but not vision casters by the ego or prideful desires of one man. (cp, 1Cor 4:1-2, 2Tim 2:24-26, 1Pt 5:1-4).

While a plurality of godly leaders who are Biblically qualified serve and lead a church and give vision within a congregation, by no means is that to be heavy handed or self-aggrandizing. And should only be carried out according to God's Word alone!

I believe it was Stephen Charnock who once said, "pride is self contending with God for preeminence." We must all guard against it... Amen?

Thank you again for an excellent broadcast. I will pray for my brother and friend, Mark, that the Lord would soften his heart on this issue.

Grace to you,
2Cor 4:5-7


This is abuse of power pure and simple. It's power and control of the congregation (something I've witnessed firsthand, although to a lesser extent)and it is the opposite of Godly behavior. I would have never realized this all comes from Blackaby, but hearing it explained - it makes perfect sense. So sad and so scary. We should pray that congregants see the light and get out AND of course we should pray that the Lord softens Driscoll's heart. I shudder to think of the price he will pay if he does not repent.

Thanks for everything you are doing Mr. Rosebrough.


Don't know if I can put a link here, but here goes:
thoughts on "pastors"

Arthur Sido

They are about two steps away from sending out pairs of nice young men in dark suits and white shirts on bikes to proselytize door to door.


This is scary stuff - the scariest thing is that so many are taken in by these doctrines.

These teachings on "vision casting" are at best non-Biblical, but are taught with Biblical authority and accordingly sound like plain heresy. What authority do we have beyond the Bible? Sure, I can teach whatever I like, but if I teach anything that is beyond the Bible's teaching then I'm quite simply not Christian anymore! (2 John 9-11)

I wonder if the issue of discipline comes from Titus 3:10-11, where divisiveness is the reason for a possible form of discipline.
The problem is that divisiveness is defined relative to the norm. And when the norm is wrong, the correct Biblical response of discerningly questioning and objecting will look suspiciously like divisiveness. It's pretty much a carte blanche for the loud mouthed 'pastor' to have his way without question.

Thank God that His church is His! He will build it, not even the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, and 2,000 years on He has never failed to prove it, bringing it through countless impossible problems, and He will continue to do so until Christ returns and consummates the glorious salvation He has so graciously given through His most blessed Son. All glory to Him!

Dan Lauer

I'm with Steve Camp on praying for Mark in this, but I do find myself wondering if you're paying attention. This clip you chose is 5 years old. I listen to Mark a lot, and I don't believe this is representative of where he stands today. From my perspective, prayer is working. I hear a great deal of repentance in Mark's sermons, particularly those preached in the past two years.

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